Crank swap possible?
And this is me pressing it out for real. The first time it went "TOK" I was happy. It let go very cleanly and I know now I can spit my good donor crank cleanly to retrieve the rod and bearing and copper washers without hurting them.
See this set of pics for that also.
OK, Now I have to make me a jig for the re-assembly. I will try and put this sample crank back together and measure and true the run out next, I've never taken a crank apart before, I am definitely learning between internet and my sample crank. I hope to be able to save my motor. Wish me luck.
See this set of pics for that also.
OK, Now I have to make me a jig for the re-assembly. I will try and put this sample crank back together and measure and true the run out next, I've never taken a crank apart before, I am definitely learning between internet and my sample crank. I hope to be able to save my motor. Wish me luck.
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
Re: Crank swap possible?
OK
The wait is finally over. Here is my fall 2015 update on my connecting rod and bearing swap.
First I dug out my micro caliper set, and i also build a very modest reproduction jig like the one Bruce Used on his end.
Then I pressed my crank apart. This type of crank has ears on either side opposite the conterweight. Made it very easy to break apart cleanly. (my previous jig would not work for this crank)
Here we can see the old bearings and cage (brown in color) there is slight pitting on the old needle bearings. Yikes!
Now for the fun part. Re-assembly. I used assembly grease to hold the tiny needles onto the cage long enough to install the new rod.
The wait is finally over. Here is my fall 2015 update on my connecting rod and bearing swap.
First I dug out my micro caliper set, and i also build a very modest reproduction jig like the one Bruce Used on his end.
Then I pressed my crank apart. This type of crank has ears on either side opposite the conterweight. Made it very easy to break apart cleanly. (my previous jig would not work for this crank)
Here we can see the old bearings and cage (brown in color) there is slight pitting on the old needle bearings. Yikes!
Now for the fun part. Re-assembly. I used assembly grease to hold the tiny needles onto the cage long enough to install the new rod.
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
Re: Crank swap possible?
This part however, is not so easy.
Here's where i did the work. I made a Jig, and installed the dial indicator and made a legend on a piece of paper, so i could keep track of where i hit, and the result. Plus or minus, and if I gained or a lost. If you do not keep track of which end you hit with the "BRASS" hammer, you can quickly get confused.
Also, Notice. I have my crank pin pushed 1/2 way ONLY. Very important. I can not immagine trying to hit and move the crank once it is pressed fully back together.
Here is a picture of my set-up. It does not have to be pretty, BUT it needs to be accurate.
I kept a legend on paper, I marked the crank conterweights with side A and B. And + or -. This way I could remember where I hit last.
I also marded these references on the jig at all 4 corners. Believe me, You can quickly loose track of the last place you hit and gained. Or lost. Each time you get the crank back into the jig, you have to re-calibrate to "0" and make sure you sit in the exact alignment. I spent almost 35 or 40 minutes before i figured out it was better to mark it down on a piece of paper, and keep track of the direction my crank was moving.
As of this very moment. I am dialed in to .006 Inches (I can not or I can not seem to dial it any better)
I have a question to you Bruce. I believe you mentioned that you also had one that would not re-dial at perfect 0 . What was your measurements? Do you remember?
Here's where i did the work. I made a Jig, and installed the dial indicator and made a legend on a piece of paper, so i could keep track of where i hit, and the result. Plus or minus, and if I gained or a lost. If you do not keep track of which end you hit with the "BRASS" hammer, you can quickly get confused.
Also, Notice. I have my crank pin pushed 1/2 way ONLY. Very important. I can not immagine trying to hit and move the crank once it is pressed fully back together.
Here is a picture of my set-up. It does not have to be pretty, BUT it needs to be accurate.
I kept a legend on paper, I marked the crank conterweights with side A and B. And + or -. This way I could remember where I hit last.
I also marded these references on the jig at all 4 corners. Believe me, You can quickly loose track of the last place you hit and gained. Or lost. Each time you get the crank back into the jig, you have to re-calibrate to "0" and make sure you sit in the exact alignment. I spent almost 35 or 40 minutes before i figured out it was better to mark it down on a piece of paper, and keep track of the direction my crank was moving.
As of this very moment. I am dialed in to .006 Inches (I can not or I can not seem to dial it any better)
I have a question to you Bruce. I believe you mentioned that you also had one that would not re-dial at perfect 0 . What was your measurements? Do you remember?
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
Re: Crank swap possible?
Very interesting thread going on here. Question for you, in the first picture in the previous post, the bearing/rollers on the left side are running on a pitted portion of the crank. Would you be able to zero it if your jig was built a little different so the bearings/rollers were running on the smoother part of the crank where the crank bearing goes?
Re: Crank swap possible?
Good Questionfap67 wrote: Would you be able to zero it if your jig was built a little different so the bearings/rollers were running on the smoother part of the crank where the crank bearing goes?
Yes. I had already taught of that. My best readings were between .004" and .006" at the mag end, and .004" at the PTO end.
I can't seem to get it any better. This reading is very very sensitive. You sneeze and it moves.
Here's the pic with the bearings turned inward on the right.
I am gonna wait to see what Bruce says, and next weekend I may start to reassemble the motor again.
Thanks for your question.
Jesse
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
Re: Crank swap possible?
In the pic above, the surface looks pitted where the dial caliper is, that is going to be some of what your indicator is reading. I have never straightened a crankshaft, but I have used a dial indicator to center stuff in the four jaw chuck of my lathe, if the surface isn't smooth, you can't get it zeroed out. Like you said, very sensitive.
Re: Crank swap possible?
Yes, I agree. I went and tried to make better measurements yesterday evening after work, and the best I got was 003" with consistency. I took it at the best spot possible where the clutch sits.fap67 wrote: if the surface isn't smooth, you can't get it zeroed out. Like you said, very sensitive.
On another question: What is the side conn rod to crank clearance supposed to be? Does anyone have a manual to find this out? I am at 019" using a feeler gauge. I'm exactly the with of the pin. I can't crush anymore with the press unless i shim around the crank pin. Which I don't want to do if i don't have to.
(stupid me, I forgot to measure before I tore it down) then again, It was so loose, it may have been 030"
Jesse
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
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Re: Crank swap possible?
Jesse,
Your memory is correct. I was at the same place as you that no matter what I did, I could not get the crank dialed in closer. I don't remember now how I determined the issue, but somehow it became apparant that this issue was not with aligning the halves of the crank to each other, but an issue with them not being parrallel to each other. My halves seemed spread apart for some reason.
So I set the crank on the iron one half down, and gave the other half a bump with the soft blow hammer and my readings improved. A couple more good bumps and the crank came right in within a couple thousands.
Regarding that pitted area on the shaft, if this is where the seal rides, you may end up with a leak there. I fix those areas with SKF Speedi Sleeves.
Bruce
Your memory is correct. I was at the same place as you that no matter what I did, I could not get the crank dialed in closer. I don't remember now how I determined the issue, but somehow it became apparant that this issue was not with aligning the halves of the crank to each other, but an issue with them not being parrallel to each other. My halves seemed spread apart for some reason.
So I set the crank on the iron one half down, and gave the other half a bump with the soft blow hammer and my readings improved. A couple more good bumps and the crank came right in within a couple thousands.
Regarding that pitted area on the shaft, if this is where the seal rides, you may end up with a leak there. I fix those areas with SKF Speedi Sleeves.
Bruce
Too many Diablos and parts to count.
Yamaha 600 SX
Yamaha 600 SX
Re: Crank swap possible?
Thanks Bruce.
I was waiting for your input for that very reason.
Now regarding the speedi sleeve. I was looking on line for how they install. Do you happen to have a tool to slide these suckers all the way over the shafts and in to position. It looks very tight to me. The videos are all installing these sleeves "cold" with blunt force.
Seems to me, If someone was to heat them up on a "hot plate" instead, they might just slide all the way down to their crank halfs and then cool off "instantly" thus making them secure.
How do you suggest I proceed with these, If I were to buy a pair?
Again, Thanks
Jesse
BTW: I am gonna give it a go this weekend and see if I can't "parallelle my halfs"
I was waiting for your input for that very reason.
Now regarding the speedi sleeve. I was looking on line for how they install. Do you happen to have a tool to slide these suckers all the way over the shafts and in to position. It looks very tight to me. The videos are all installing these sleeves "cold" with blunt force.
Seems to me, If someone was to heat them up on a "hot plate" instead, they might just slide all the way down to their crank halfs and then cool off "instantly" thus making them secure.
How do you suggest I proceed with these, If I were to buy a pair?
Again, Thanks
Jesse
BTW: I am gonna give it a go this weekend and see if I can't "parallelle my halfs"
1971 Snowbug
1967 Diablo rouge 500
1967 Diablo rouge 500
Re: Crank swap possible?
Hi Jesse
Measured an NOS crank I have and I get .018" clearance.... rod to crank side clearance.
Hopethat helps.
Roy
Measured an NOS crank I have and I get .018" clearance.... rod to crank side clearance.
Hopethat helps.
Roy