snowmobile "TRITON"

[Igoreha74]

Hello! My name is Igor. I want to thank Bruce for the possible communication on your forum. My friend and I are fond of designing small snowmobiles (motorized dogs). We were interested in the Hus Ski and Diablo snowmobiles. We will be very grateful for your advice or photos.
We are interested in :
1. Complexity of management?
2. A method of attaching a sled to a snowmobile. Ball or other hinge?
3. Snowmobile pressure on snow?
4. The ability of snowmobiles to move in deep, loose snow?
5. What is the trim when driving in deep snow?
With respect to all participants in your forum. Igor.
Test fragment of our mini snowmobile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZL3ICwU11Q

[Igoreha74]

Good afternoon dear friends. Happy New Year and Merry Christmas !

[Igoreha74]

Good afternoon dear friends. I apologize for the poor translation.
To my questions, from the first message you did not give a single answer. I guess I asked the wrong one. On our little snowmobile, we want to install a sled similar to yours. For this we need your help.
Our sleigh.

Сани 2 в сборе.jpg (55.95 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

[Schoobytwo (Bruce)]

Hello Igor,

I will apologize for the lack of input. The group of enthusiasts on this forum have a high amount of knowledge in the construction and use of Hus Skis and Diablos, but all of us have very little engineering data when it comes to the design and factory fabrication of these units. The variety of questions you are asking can only be answered by opinion and I suspect many of us are hesitant to reply.

With that, you are not the first to inquire. On this forum and through direct contact with some of our members, people like yourself from the other side of the world have asked for details hoping to build or design a similar unit. Snow Dog from Russia actually came to our 50th Anniversary Event in the US to show us their design. The use of google translator helps make these electronic discussions possible, but there still are gaps in translation that become barriers especially when trying to describe technical details. But with that, allow me to try and answer some questions.

1. Complexity of management? - Most of us don't understand the question. Maybe you are asking how Hus Skis and Diablos start, drive in snow, load on a trailer or into the back of a truck or other information like that?

2. A method of attaching a sled to a snowmobile. Ball or other hinge? - Both Hus Ski and Diablos use an automotive ball joint connection with a hair pin clip (not a nut used on a typical ball joint). The ball joint housing is welded to the tractor chassis and the sleigh has a matching connection. I'm sure we can share pictures if needed. This ball joint design has worked very well.

3. Snowmobile pressure on snow? - Both Hus Skis and Diablos have a large foot print which allows them to stay on top of the snow but that does not mean they stay on top of the snow when driving. See next comment.

4. The ability of snowmobiles to move in deep, loose snow? -There is no question the Hus Ski models are better designed for deep snow. They have a shorter tractor length and the track cleats are much more aggressive than the design of the Diablo. A technique that can be used on a Hus Ski in deep snow is to place your feet on the tractor to force down the back end and help steer and this tends to keep the front end up. This technique is much harder to utilize on a Diablo. Diablos are more designed for groomed trail riding and snow depths less than a foot.

5. What is the trim when driving in deep snow? - When you say trim, I think you are asking about levelness of the tractor? See above comment.

I would encourage you to ask specific questions and in turn, I ask the group to respond if you could and hopeful the dialog will be beneficial for both.

Best Regards,

Bruce

[Igoreha74]

Hi Bruce!
Thanks for the answer. I never used a translator to communicate and was worried that my questions would be incorrectly translated. After reading your answer, I was surprised at the good quality of the translation. I apologize for the questions you did not understand.
Let's try again.
I have a Triton snowmobile. He has two tracks. Track Width 0.72 ft. The distance between the tracks is 0.72 feet. The Triton is 3.61 feet long and weighs 172 pounds. To control a snowmobile, it’s not sleds that are used, but sledges (I don’t know what you call them). When driving in snow from 1.31 to 1.97 feet deep, the snowmobile moves steadily and I like its work. But I want to check all its features and choose the best option. To do this, I want to put the skis behind the snowmobile in order to try how the snowmobile behaves using the Hus Skis scheme.
Tell me please:
1. The mass of Hus Skis and the dimensions of the supporting surface of one track.
2. The mass of the ski trailer and the size of one ski?
3. Is it difficult to level the snowmobile when it begins to lean to the side?
If the translation is bad, I will try to change the questions.
With respect, Igor.

[snocatpete]

Hi Igor, Hi Bruce
I will try and give you some of the information you are looking for regarding hus-skis and diablos. I will try and answer your questions in point form

1. The mass (weight) of a Hus-ski 200 is 270 pounds and the 444 weighs 325 pounds. The track width is 12 inches and the supporting area from the centre of the front axle to the centre of the rear axle is approximately 38 inches so the supporting area of one track would be 12 inches b 38 inches. There is a small variable as the rear axle will move as this is how the track is adjusted and this will increase or decrease your support area.

2. the hus-ski ski measures 6 inches x 59 inches from tip to tail but the approximate carrying area is 6 inches x 53 inches.
The mass (weight) of the trailer empty a Hus-ski 200 is 52 pounds. A Hus-ski 444 empty trailer weighs 60 pounds. Of course adding a driver and passenger will drastically change the mass (weight) of a trailer.

3. is it difficult to level the hus-ski when it leans to one side? this is a difficult question for me to answer because there are several variables to consider such as
- snow conditions and depth
- terrain (flat or hilly )
- driver experience
Maybe some other forum members can comment on any techniques or experience of riding hus-skis in deep snow

4. Attaching the trailer to the Hus-ski :
As Bruce mentioned, it uses a ball joint. This is actually a tie-rod end (which is part of an automobile steering) with the threaded part of the tie-rod end cut off and then welded to the Hus-ski frame. In my opinion, as far as attaching a trailer (ski seater) to the tractor, I think Hus-ski/Bolens really got this figured out well. I do not see a better way to attach the trailer to the tractor for this application.

Other:
You also asked ball or hinge? when you say hinge, do you have some kind of design in mind that you are thinking of? My question to you is how do you attach your trailer to the driving part of your prototype snowmobile? Are you currently using a hinge or a ball type?

The photo you posted of your trailer really doesn't show enough detail for me to comment on. Hus-ski has this figured out using a large seat for driver and passenger comfort, a large utility box under the seat for easy access and a very quick and simple way to install or remove the skis. So if you are designing a trailer, using a Hus-ski trailer as a pattern would make the most sense.

I also watched your video. It also doesn't show me too much that I would comment on regarding the machine. The video shows the machine travelling too quickly or it is too far away and there are too many trees blocking a clear view for me to see details. If you could take another video of the machine showing its operation up close so we can see more details, it would be very helpful. And some still pictures of the components you are asking about would also be helpful. (but I can understand your reluctance to do this as you are working on a prototype)

The above is solely my opinion and thoughts. Maybe other MEMBERS OF THE FORUM could give more information and perspective regarding this topic.

I have also included some photos
Pete

[snocatpete]

specs

[snocatpete]

specs and ball joint

[snocatpete]

I also recommend you look on gogodiablo.com website as there is lots of good information. Look under the "navigation" section of this website where this is lots of detailed information and specifications regarding Hus-skis and Diablos. And also use the search box on the Forum to search specific topics.
There are many good videos of Hus-skis on YouTube and these show their driving and handling characteristics.
Again, I hope this helps
Pete

[Barrie2777]

One might be able to argue that in deep snow the whole ski including the curved tip is load carrying. It is on packed snow that the curved tip has no contact and therefore no load carrying responsibility. Small detail.

The attachment point of the sleigh on the tractor unit is critical to its performance in snow. Too far back and the rear will sink. Too far forward and it wont climb. When going through deep snow i find it very desirable for the rear to be lower than the front thus creating a climbing action. Machines without this critical geometry will not perform well in deep snow.

Levelling of a husski or any snowmobile depends greatly on driver experience. The model 600 single track husski was impossible to level regardless of driver experience. Just bad geometry in the machine design. In the most extreme of snow conditions, placing your feet on the tractor body and applying downward pressure on the high side, often helps maintain the levelling.