Crank swap possible?

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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:29 pm

And this is me pressing it out for real. The first time it went "TOK" I was happy. It let go very cleanly and I know now I can spit my good donor crank cleanly to retrieve the rod and bearing and copper washers without hurting them.

See this set of pics for that also.

Image

Image

Image

Image

OK, Now I have to make me a jig for the re-assembly. I will try and put this sample crank back together and measure and true the run out next, I've never taken a crank apart before, I am definitely learning between internet and my sample crank. I hope to be able to save my motor. Wish me luck. :cry:
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:35 pm

OK
The wait is finally over. Here is my fall 2015 update on my connecting rod and bearing swap. Image

First I dug out my micro caliper set, and i also build a very modest reproduction jig like the one Bruce Used on his end.

Then I pressed my crank apart. This type of crank has ears on either side opposite the conterweight. Made it very easy to break apart cleanly. (my previous jig would not work for this crank)
Image

Here we can see the old bearings and cage (brown in color) there is slight pitting on the old needle bearings. Yikes!
Image

Now for the fun part. Re-assembly. I used assembly grease to hold the tiny needles onto the cage long enough to install the new rod.
Image

Image
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:39 pm

This part however, is not so easy.

Here's where i did the work. I made a Jig, and installed the dial indicator and made a legend on a piece of paper, so i could keep track of where i hit, and the result. Plus or minus, and if I gained or a lost. If you do not keep track of which end you hit with the "BRASS" hammer, you can quickly get confused.

Also, Notice. I have my crank pin pushed 1/2 way ONLY. Very important. I can not immagine trying to hit and move the crank once it is pressed fully back together.

Here is a picture of my set-up. It does not have to be pretty, BUT it needs to be accurate. :shock:

Image

I kept a legend on paper, I marked the crank conterweights with side A and B. And + or -. This way I could remember where I hit last.
Image

I also marded these references on the jig at all 4 corners. Believe me, You can quickly loose track of the last place you hit and gained. Or lost. Each time you get the crank back into the jig, you have to re-calibrate to "0" and make sure you sit in the exact alignment. I spent almost 35 or 40 minutes before i figured out it was better to mark it down on a piece of paper, and keep track of the direction my crank was moving.

Image

As of this very moment. I am dialed in to .006 Inches (I can not or I can not seem to dial it any better)

I have a question to you Bruce. I believe you mentioned that you also had one that would not re-dial at perfect 0 . What was your measurements? Do you remember?
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby fap67 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:51 pm

Very interesting thread going on here. Question for you, in the first picture in the previous post, the bearing/rollers on the left side are running on a pitted portion of the crank. Would you be able to zero it if your jig was built a little different so the bearings/rollers were running on the smoother part of the crank where the crank bearing goes?
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:06 pm

fap67 wrote: Would you be able to zero it if your jig was built a little different so the bearings/rollers were running on the smoother part of the crank where the crank bearing goes?


Good Question

Yes. I had already taught of that. My best readings were between .004" and .006" at the mag end, and .004" at the PTO end.

I can't seem to get it any better. This reading is very very sensitive. You sneeze and it moves. :o

Here's the pic with the bearings turned inward on the right.

Image

I am gonna wait to see what Bruce says, and next weekend I may start to reassemble the motor again.

Thanks for your question.

Jesse
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby fap67 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:01 pm

In the pic above, the surface looks pitted where the dial caliper is, that is going to be some of what your indicator is reading. I have never straightened a crankshaft, but I have used a dial indicator to center stuff in the four jaw chuck of my lathe, if the surface isn't smooth, you can't get it zeroed out. Like you said, very sensitive.
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:54 am

fap67 wrote: if the surface isn't smooth, you can't get it zeroed out. Like you said, very sensitive.


Yes, I agree. I went and tried to make better measurements yesterday evening after work, and the best I got was 003" with consistency. I took it at the best spot possible where the clutch sits.


On another question: What is the side conn rod to crank clearance supposed to be? Does anyone have a manual to find this out? I am at 019" using a feeler gauge. I'm exactly the with of the pin. I can't crush anymore with the press unless i shim around the crank pin. Which I don't want to do if i don't have to.

(stupid me, I forgot to measure before I tore it down) then again, It was so loose, it may have been 030" :?:

Jesse
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby Schoobytwo (Bruce) » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:23 am

Jesse,

Your memory is correct. I was at the same place as you that no matter what I did, I could not get the crank dialed in closer. I don't remember now how I determined the issue, but somehow it became apparant that this issue was not with aligning the halves of the crank to each other, but an issue with them not being parrallel to each other. My halves seemed spread apart for some reason.

So I set the crank on the iron one half down, and gave the other half a bump with the soft blow hammer and my readings improved. A couple more good bumps and the crank came right in within a couple thousands.

Regarding that pitted area on the shaft, if this is where the seal rides, you may end up with a leak there. I fix those areas with SKF Speedi Sleeves.

Bruce
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby jayvee43 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:07 am

Thanks Bruce.

I was waiting for your input for that very reason.

Now regarding the speedi sleeve. I was looking on line for how they install. Do you happen to have a tool to slide these suckers all the way over the shafts and in to position. It looks very tight to me. The videos are all installing these sleeves "cold" with blunt force.

Seems to me, If someone was to heat them up on a "hot plate" instead, they might just slide all the way down to their crank halfs and then cool off "instantly" thus making them secure.

How do you suggest I proceed with these, If I were to buy a pair?

Again, Thanks

Jesse

BTW: I am gonna give it a go this weekend and see if I can't "parallelle my halfs" ;)
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Re: Crank swap possible?

Postby Roy Teske » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:37 am

Hi Jesse
Measured an NOS crank I have and I get .018" clearance.... rod to crank side clearance.
Hopethat helps.
Roy
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